Gunformation Forum

General - Algemeen :: Police guns worth over R5 million lost or stolen

Author: GOSA
Subject: Police guns worth over R5 million lost or stolen
Posted: Tue, 2011-12-13 13:02 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 0

http://www.witness.co.za/index.php?showcontent&global[_id]=73423

Guns worth over R5 million lost or stolen
13 Dec 2011

A STAGGERING 1 941 official firearms to the collective value of R5,060 million have been reported lost or stolen by KwaZulu-Natal law enforcement officers between January and October this year.

This was revealed by KZN Community Safety and Liaison MEC Willies Mchunu in a parliamentary reply to questions by the Democratic Alliance (DA) yesterday.

The report revealed that 1 120 firearms were reported lost, while 821 were listed as stolen.

Of these firearms, 1 542 handguns, 57 shotguns and 360 rifles were reported lost or stolen.

Mchunu said 203 firearms repor�ted lost or stolen during the past five years have since been recovered, with the average time frame 409 days for recovery.

The DA said it was alarmed by these figures and will be calling for a full explanation from the MEC.

�The fact that so many firearms entrusted to law enforcement officers have simply vanished is an indictment against both the department and its employees and raises serious questions around competency levels,� DA spokesperson for community safety and liaison Sizwe Mchunu said yesterday.

�We will be calling for answers as to how this has been allowed to happen and what steps the department is taking to prevent such massive loss in the future.

�We also want to know whether any disciplinary measures are in place to deal with instances where firearms simply disappear.�

He said the recovery rate of weapons indicates that finding missing firearms is not viewed as a department priority. �KZN�s crime levels remain high and the reality is that many of these weapons are now in the wrong hands,� said Mchunu.

The MEC responded that a dedicated team investigates the disappearance of firearms and that all necessary steps are taken. � WR.
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SAPS : Police Shootings, Brutality, Corruption and Incompetence :: 2011-12-04: Cop kills son's mom over Xmas present

Author: GOSA
Subject: 2011-12-04: Cop kills son's mom over Xmas present
Posted: Mon, 2011-12-05 18:10 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 0

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Cop-kills-sons-mom-over-Xmas-present-20111204

Cop kills son's mom over Xmas present
2011-12-04 20:27

KwaMhlanga - A policeman has been charged with shooting dead the mother of his child when she asked for money to buy the boy some clothes for Christmas.

Constable Moses Skhosana, 30, is accused of using his service pistol to kill Bathabile Masilela, 23, and injure his 4-year-old son and the boy's grandmother in KwaMhlanga, Mpumalanga, on November 26.

He was remanded in custody by the KwaMhlanga Magistrate�s Court last week and will apply for bail this coming Friday.

Skhosana has not been asked to plead to a charge of murder and two counts of attempted murder.

Provincial police spokesperson Lieutenant Colonel Leonard Hlathi said the constable handed himself over to KwaMhlanga police on the same day as the incident.

Hlathi said the provincial commissioner�s office was in the process of instituting internal disciplinary action against Skhosana.

�The suspect will be informed of the process and his outcome will be announced once the process is finalised,� said Hlathi.

- African Eye
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General - Algemeen :: RE: All the way down the slippery slope -- lessons from the UK

Author: Martin_tu
Posted: Fri, 2011-11-18 13:21 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 3

[quote="Leitmotif"] "Gun control is simply a more acceptable term than Victim disarmament".

Not entirely unlike 'Load shedding' is a more acceptable term than "Power cuts".

M_tu
_________________
"Rather have a gun and not need it than vice versa." Essential for activists:- Debunking Gun myths - http://www.gunfacts.info/index.html and http://www.africancrisis.co.za/Home.php and http://www.a-human-right.com and http://www.thehomegunsmith.com/

Beeld :: RE: 2011-10-11: Polisie kry kamers vol wapens in huis

Author: GOSA
Posted: Wed, 2011-10-12 11:03 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 2

http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Vuurwapens-by-huis-n-storm-in-n-teekoppie-20111011

Vuurwapens by huis ''n storm in 'n teekoppie'
2011-10-11 22:49
Hilda Fourie

Die eienaar van die huis in Valhalla, Centurion, waar 'n "klein
arsenaal" gevind is, is 'n geregistreerde vuurwapen- en
ammunisieversamelaar.

Mnr. Tersius Jansen van Rensburg was ook tot 'n paar jaar gelede
'n geregistreerde wapensmid.

Mnr. Carvel Webb, voorsitter van die Suid-Afrikaanse
vuurwapen-en-ammunisie-versamelaarsvereniging (Saaca), het gister
bevestig Jansen van Rensburg het 'n vuurwapen- en
ammunisie-versamelaarsertifikaat by die polisie en Saaca.

Mnr. George Nell, prokureur en kenner van die nuwe Wet op Beheer
van Vuurwapens, het aan Beeld bevestig dat hy Jansen van
Rensburg, eienaar van die huis waarin die vuurwapens en ammunisie
gevind is, verteenwoordig.

Jansen van Rensburg woon tans in Brittanje en verhuur sy huis in
Vikingweg.

Webb het ges� die voorval is moontlik 'n "storm in 'n teekoppie"
omdat dit wil lyk of die wapens en ammunisie wettig is.

Genl. Bheki Cele, nasionale polisiehoof, het eergisteraand buite
die huis ges� hy het "te veel" wapens en ammunisie gesien.

"Ek en jy sal 'n oorlog kan wen met al die vuurwapens en patrone
wat in di� huis is."

Die Tshwane-metropolisie se K9-eenheid en die polisie het
eergisteraand op di� vonds afgekom nadat die vrou wat die huis
huur onraad begin vermoed het weens al die gangkaste en kamers in
die huis wat gesluit was.

Die polisie het op die arsenaal afgekom nadat 'n springstofhond
aangedui het daar is vuurwapens en ammunisie in die kamers en
gangkaste.

Polisielede het deurnag gewerk om alles te tel waarna hulle dit
na die Wierdabrug-polisiekantoor geneem het.

Teen gisteroggend was daar steeds dele van vuurwapens en
ammunisie wat in die huis rondgel� het.

Lt.kol. Tshisikhawe Ndou, Gautengse polisiewoordvoerder, het ges�
meer as 30 vuurwapens, magasyne vir 'n R5- en R1-aanvalsgeweer,
skokgranate en duisende patrone is gevind.

Volgens Ndou was die minderheid van di� wapens en ammunisie in 'n
kluis toegesluit.

"In di� stadium kan ons nie s� of die eienaar 'n verdagte is of
nie, maar hy sal ons beslis in die ondersoek kan help," het Ndou
ges�.

"Daar is tans nie enige inligting wat aandui dat hy 'n
versamelaar is nie."

Webb het ges� volgens hul inligting is die vuurwapens wat gevind
is in stukke "wat nie lisensieerbaar is nie".

"Die eienaar het wel gelisensieerde vuurwapens wat in 'n kluis by
'n wapenhandelaar is," het Webb ges�.

"Die ammunisie wat hy het, is sy vuurwapens s'n wat in die kluis
by die wapenhandelaar is."

Volgens Webb plaas die Wet op Beheer van Vuurwapens nie 'n
beperking op die getal vuurwapens wat 'n versamelaar mag h� nie,
maar dit moet geb�re word in 'n bewaringsplek wat aan die polisie
se standaarde voldoen.

Ingevolge die ou vuurwapenwet is daar nie 'n beperking op die
hoeveelheid ammunisie wat jy mag h� nie, hoewel die nuwe wet jou
beperk tot 200 patrone per vuurwapenlisensie.

Indien jy 'n vuurwapenlisensie het, mag jy in besit wees van die
samestellende dele van 'n koe�l om 'n wapen te herlaai.

Webb het ges� as die vuurwapens in 'n kluis op jou eiendom is,
die veiligheidsmaatre�ls op standaard is en die huurder het nie
toegang daartoe nie, "sou jy dit tegnies daar kon los sonder om
by die huis te wees".
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Beeld :: RE: 2011-10-11: Polisie kry kamers vol wapens in huis

Author: wrm
Posted: Tue, 2011-10-11 12:08 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 2

Hoe lank vat hulle om tot by 24 te tel?

Hulle moet maar liewer nie by my kom kuier nie, hulle sal twee dae lank tel. Ek dink 24 is 'n goeie begin, niks meer nie.
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News24 :: 2011-10-10: Blue light cop says he was in danger

Author: GOSA
Subject: 2011-10-10: Blue light cop says he was in danger
Posted: Tue, 2011-10-11 12:04 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 0

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Blue-light-cop-says-he-was-in-danger-20111010

Blue light cop says he was in danger
2011-10-10 22:48

Pietermaritzburg - A VIP protection unit member charged with shooting at a vehicle told the Pietermaritzburg Magistrate's Court on Monday that he fired shots because the driver posed a danger to him.

Constable Hlanganani Nxumalo, bodyguard for KwaZulu-Natal Social Development MEC Meshack Radebe, admitted to firing shots during the incident which caused a huge public outcry.

Eight people were injured during the incident in 2008.

Nxumalo was with his colleague, Caiphus Ndlela when the incident happened and they were on their way to fetch Radebe in Hammarsdale.

Nxumalo is said to have shot out the tyre of a Mazda car near Camperdown, resulting in the driver losing control, veering into oncoming traffic before colliding head-on with a bakkie.

Nxumalo told the court, that the driver of the car he fired at posed a danger to them and had tried to bump them off the road.

He said he had warned the driver to slow down by signalling to him and that his attempts to stop him had been met with a middle finger response.

Nxumalo told the court he reached for his gun and fired warning shots after it became clear the driver would not give way.

Asked why they had not passed the other car, Nxumalo said he could not give a response as he was not driving.

The trial continues and Ndlela is expected to take the stand on Tuesday.

- SAPA
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Beeld :: 2011-10-11: Polisie kry kamers vol wapens in huis

Author: GOSA
Subject: 2011-10-11: Polisie kry kamers vol wapens in huis
Posted: Tue, 2011-10-11 12:03 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 2

http://afrikaans.news24.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Polisie-kry-kamers-vol-wapens-in-huis-20111011

Polisie kry kamers vol wapens in huis
2011-10-11 07:04

Hilda Fourie

Johannesburg. � �Ek en jy sal �n oorlog kan wen met al die vuurwapens en ammunisie wat in di� huis is.�

S� het genl. Bheki Cele, nasionale polisiehoof, Maandagaand buite �n huis in Valhalla, Centurion, ges� waar die Tshwane-metropolisie en die polisie op minstens ses kamers vol vuurwapens, ammunisie, buskruit, kommunikasietoerusting en polisie-, weermag- en lugmaguniforms afgekom het.

Teen druktyd is daar al 24 wapens getel, maar dit was nog nie duidelik wat nog in di� huis in Vikingstraat versteek was nie.

Cele het ges� die ammunisie was te veel om te tel.

�Ons sal nie weet wat die motief vir al die vuurwapens is voordat ons nie met die eienaar gepraat en hy vir ons �n paar antwoorde gegee het nie.�

Die huurder van die huis, wat nie haar naam genoem wil h� nie, het gisteraand ges� sy het verlede Vrydag ingetrek.

Sy huur net �n gedeelte van die huis wat aan �n man behoort wat in Londen bly.

Lt.kol. Tshisikhawe Ndou, Gautengse polisiewoordvoerder, het ges� al die bewerings teen die eienaar sal deel van die ondersoek uitmaak. Hy het ges� daar is onder meer ammunisie vir �n R1- en �n R5-aanvalsgeweer, �n .38-rowolwer en 9mm-pistool en verskillende vuurwapens, soos �n .303 jaggeweer en verskeie pistole gevind.

- Beeld
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General - Algemeen :: RE: "License approved...but we don't know where your gun is"

Author: melwou7245
Posted: Wed, 2011-09-21 19:51 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 12

Honestly I only started asserting my right to bear arms in the past 3 years - only graduated from university post-2004. So I've been working with the FCA BS since day one. I've got 2 rifles and 2 pistols now. All for sport-shooting, but the above mentioned pistol and a few others which will soon be purchased will also be carried for SD. There's no law preventing me from doing so, so the SAPS can go blow it out their asses.

But it's true what you guys are saying about it becoming a slippery slope. I'm 28 and less than say 20% of the guys my age have ever shot a firearm; virtually none have ever shot a proper pistol or military style rifle. My first exposure to firearms was reservist training with the SAPS, of which I will straight up say I shot better than virtually all the PFs - guess all those years of videogames paid off.

As an update to the original post, AFTA's case was (predictably) thrown out of court yesterday because the SAP couldn't scrounge up any evidence whatsoever to back up the trumped up charges against them, even after 8 months. The cop who started all this shenanigans is himself now under investigation for laundering firearms that were earmarked for destruction. TIA.

So now we have to wait to find out when we can get our damn weapons back. Oh yeah, to sweeten this little f*ck up, apparently most of the weapons were damaged when the SAP seized them e.g. they threw them in metal boxes and made a point of kicking the boxes down the stairs. Just praying my R20k pistol came away unscathed. *sigh*
_________________
"Don't shoot to kill, shoot to live"

General - Algemeen :: RE: "License approved...but we don't know where your gun is"

Author: Jack
Posted: Tue, 2011-09-20 09:43 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 12

Jack wrote:

Make no bones about, we are losing.

Correction, we are not losing, we have already lost.

General - Algemeen :: RE: "License approved...but we don't know where your gun is"

Author: Jack
Posted: Mon, 2011-09-19 09:12 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 12

Molon Labe. I wonder how many South Africa subjects will utter those words and fight?. Its sad to say very few. If more people had grown a stiffer spine we would have won this battle by now, instead certain organisations would rather cut cozy deals with the SAP. While its true some have been turned around, is it too little too late?

Make no bones about, we are losing.

General - Algemeen :: RE: "License approved...but we don't know where your gun is"

Author: crimefree
Posted: Mon, 2011-09-19 08:41 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 12

GOSA wrote:

melwou7245 wrote:

Has anyone ever organized a march on parliament regarding firearms?

http://www.gunownerssa.org/downloads/PvanWyk/media006.jpg

Jerry Dolman is now living in the UK. Richard Boothroyd is GOSA exec, as is Juan de Greeff.

Those signatures and petitions were flat ignored.

GOSA's been on Parliament's steps plenty times since (well, OK, outside in the street, but anyway).

A factually correct but totally useless answer.

melwou7245 there is no point in signing up anywhere. Firearm organisations are totally useless, not interested in anything but a faster more efficient FCA and bitching about service delivery. They accept the FCA and want to FIX it. They accept all gun control and are working towards a gun free South Africa. Some are in it only for the money they make others are just cowards.

Cowards are in charge who will not fight. All they want to do is accept the FCA, appease, collaborate and hope for mercy. Perhaps not unexpected when firearm owners will not support them, get off their tired useless bums and demand their rights.

It's a chicken and egg situation. Cowards don't inspire, don't lead, don't fight. They hide under rocks pretending to be invisible and when found beg for mercy.

It's not as if to say a single firearm organisation leader does not know the purpose of the FCA. Sorry they are willing to sacrifice you as they have 700,000 already so that they can own a firearm by being "responsible", licking the SAPS boots and objecting to nothing.

I wish you luck. I have spent more than 10 years trying to grow some back bone in anyone to fight this oppressive law and failed. Hiding under a rock pretending to be invisible is a better option.

Sacrifice your family, loved ones and anyone, the SAPS will thank you and let you keep your firearm.
_________________
"Two memorials remain today at Thermoplylae. Upon the modern one is engraved his response to Xerxes' demand that the Spartans lay down their arms. Leonidas' reply was two words, Molon Labe. 'Come and get them'."

General - Algemeen :: RE: "License approved...but we don't know where your gun is"

Author: GOSA
Posted: Sun, 2011-09-18 17:57 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 12

melwou7245 wrote:

Has anyone ever organized a march on parliament regarding firearms?

General - Algemeen :: RE: "License approved...but we don't know where your gun is"

Author: melwou7245
Posted: Sat, 2011-09-17 18:20 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 12

Bud, if there's any way to make SA gun friendly again, just tell me where to sign. But grumbling about how we should change things won't achieve the desired results. All I'm stating is that until then, we have to work inside the framework we have. Has anyone ever organized a march on parliament regarding firearms?
_________________
"Don't shoot to kill, shoot to live"

General - Algemeen :: RE: "License approved...but we don't know where your gun is"

Author: crimefree
Posted: Fri, 2011-08-26 12:47 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 12

crimefree wrote:

Actually it counts for squat.

melwou7245 wrote:

You are correct and the maxim - it is not about guns it is about control needs to be understood and kept in mind at all times and never ever forgotten.

I agree with you 100% in not trusting the SAPS. They've lost more weapons than the entire private sector combined in the last 3 years and they're the ones placed in charge of monitoring all the weapons in the country. But again we have to play the hands we were dealt, so one can only try to make sure they know we're not going to stand for BS. That's why the AFTA guys were in court again since Friday.

"But again we have to play the hands we were dealt"

I think I see the problem. Why do we have to play the hand we are dealt?

Are the SAPS in charge? Is government the "rulers" or slave master?

Where did you get this idea from? Who promoted it and what is their agenda because they have one.
_________________
"Two memorials remain today at Thermoplylae. Upon the modern one is engraved his response to Xerxes' demand that the Spartans lay down their arms. Leonidas' reply was two words, Molon Labe. 'Come and get them'."

General - Algemeen :: RE: "License approved...but we don't know where your gun is"

Author: melwou7245
Posted: Mon, 2011-08-22 22:30 (GMT 2)
Topic Replies: 12

crimefree wrote:

melwou7245 wrote:

Here's an update of the newest developments:

One good thing is we have confirmation that all the weapons are still safe and sealed. That counts for something...

Actually it counts for squat. When did you start trusting the word of the SAPS? Exactly why would you trust any organisation that would rather register citizens who have committed no crime than register high risk criminals? I'll tell you why. The criminals would scream the roof tops off. Those who make money out of criminals would be at the front of every action to prevent such a law and would not stop. Can you spot the difference between firearm owners and criminals? Criminals value their rights. Criminals want their rights. Criminals will fight for their rights and do what it takes to keep them.

This claim is like the SAPS claiming all the handed in firearms were destroyed. Yeah! Right!. Worst of all the SAPS don't have a single clue how many were stolen while in the SAPS care. Deliberately obscured with absolutely no checks.

You are correct and the maxim - it is not about guns it is about control needs to be understood and kept in mind at all times and never ever forgotten.

I agree with you 100% in not trusting the SAPS. They've lost more weapons than the entire private sector combined in the last 3 years and they're the ones placed in charge of monitoring all the weapons in the country. But again we have to play the hands we were dealt, so one can only try to make sure they know we're not going to stand for BS. That's why the AFTA guys were in court again since Friday.

I can't describe how f*cking annoying this is - the government seizing my property, damaging it extensively (apparently they made a point of damaging the guns when they transported them, i.e. kicking the steel storage cases down the stairs) and then telling me they won't return it just yet, because it is considered evidence in some trumped up bullsh*t case. Only in the 7th circle of hell would this thing make sense. So now when I eventually get the property I paid for, applied for and intended to use for legal purposes, it's probably going to require extensive repairs. But not to worry, I can sue the SAPS. That's another lawsuit that's going to take a year probably to pursue. I really hope that when the dust settles, the SAPS get sued so f*cking extensively that they fire the entire group of officers who started this little tirade.

In the wise words of Abe Lincoln - F*ck 'em.
_________________
"Don't shoot to kill, shoot to live"